discover to deliver mary gorman ellen gottesdiener

TBAC 028 | Author Cast : Exploring ‘Discover to Deliver’

by Yaaqub Mohamed a.k.a Yamo3

The Business Analyst Coach Podcast Artwork

When I got my copy of ‘Discover to Deliver’, I opened the package like a 5-year old opens a christmas gift. It was a treat to my eyes when I held it and skimmed through it. It was unlike most analysis books that I have read.

Also, I had a bit of déjà vu about the design and the euphoric positive feeling you get when you are holding something that is made with so much care, love and hard work.

I had to find the source of this déjà vu somehow…

Flashback: A couple months ago I came across another book that made me feel “This is how all books should be written“. The book was Business Model Generation, which I read through on and off to get inspiration for my business and understand how business models work.

When I was reading the first few pages of ‘Discover to deliver’, guess what?

The Business Model Generation book was one of the inspirations for Ellen and Mary… This explained the déjà vu feelings of emphatic mental assertion that all authors should really care about their readers like how Ellen and Mary have done in this book. They have left no stone unturned to use an elegant and visually rich language to communicate with their readers. Kudos to them!

In this 3-way podcast between Ellen, Mary and myself, we explore their newest book, “Discover to Deliver – Agile Product Planning and Analysis“. You will learn about what inspired them to write the book, what pain points this book intends to solve, how to read this, and much more (see the episode sneak-peek to get complete overview).

(See the end of this blog post to find out about the special discount coupon to purchase the book)

Here is the podcast:

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Sneak Peek of the Episode

  • Their experience with helping numerous organizations with introduction of agile or transition to agile.
  • Discussion around the pendulum of the industry.
  • The reason why teams leave out details in the user stories.
  • The reason why they are skipping a few dimensions from the seven dimensions.
  • The importance of using visual tools to help improve the conversations.
  • The framework of understanding the highest value options.
  • Discussion around value and options.
  • Product partnership the trilogy – business, technology and customer partners.
  • Why they like using product champion vs product owner.
  • Explore / Evaluate and Confirm..
  • The pain points this book is solving
  • Why they believe that this book serves the entire team.
  • The biggest problems facing agile teams and how this book addresses them.
  • Use of color and symbols in the book.
  • The rationale behind the title “Discover to Deliver”
  • The swinging through in the infinity symbol.
  • The bigger view of the product.
  • Why product is more important that project.
  • Product Vs Project.
  • How value changes with time in an initiative.
  • Discussion around organization of the book.
  • High level walkthrough of the book.
  • Walkthrough of the 6 sections.
  • Meta model for the seven dimensions of the product.
  • The use of case study all along (one integrated case study).
  • The seven product dimensions.
  • The color semantics for the dimensions.
  • Product manager and Project manager – the integrated language.
  • Example of how they used the colors / dimensions for creating user stories.
  • The meta-process to iterate through the seven product dimensions.
  • The preview, the now view and the big view.
  • Why this book is for the team.
  • How this book relates to the agile extension of the BABOK.
  • How different readers can read this book (product manager, product champion, analyst).
  • One big message for the readers from Mary and Ellen.
  • The team gaining, obtaining and sustaining a shared understanding.

Insightful Quotes From This Episode

“One of the goals we have in our book, is to have a very visually compelling way to communicate.”

“The reason why we are trying to discover something is to deliver a high value product.”

“The discovery really includes the entire body of knowledge in essence (referring to the BABOK).”

“The project is the mechanism to get the product to the market (internal or external market).”

“Value is in the eyes of the beholder.”

“The goal is to deliver a high-valued product.”

“Requirements seem to be the central issue regardless of what method or process used to deliver products.”

“They get stuck int he middle of an iteration, because they haven’t had a good conversation about what the requirements are.”

“We wanted to amplify the value of analysis to amplify the value of the product.”

Special Offer for Our Listeners

  • Website to order ->;
  • Discount coupon to get 20% off: BAC01LN
  • A free asset, “Focus Questions for The Structured Conversation” (download after purchasing).
  • Contact Ellen/Mary:
    • To order more than 7 books for additional discount
    • For International shipping

Items Mentioned in the Show

Ellen Gottesdiener in brief:

Founder and Principal with EBG Consulting, is an internationally recognized facilitator, coach, trainer, and speaker. She is an
expert in Agile product and project management practices, product envisioning and roadmapping, business analysis and requirements, retrospectives, and
collaboration. Ellen works with global clients and speaks at numerous industry conferences. She is a Certified Professional Facilitator and a Certified Scrum Master. In addition to co-authoring Discover to Deliver: Agile Product Planning and Analysis, with Mary Gorman, Ellen is author of two acclaimed books: Requirements by Collaboration and The Software Requirements Memory Jogger.

Mary Gorman in brief:

Vice President of Quality & Delivery with EBG Consulting, is an expert business analyst, facilitator, coach and trainer. She has deep expertise in business systems and product development. Mary works with global clients, speaks at industry conferences, and writes on requirements topics for the Agile and business analysis community. She is a Certified Business Analysis Professional ™ and Certified Scrum Master. Mary was instrumental in developing the IIBA ® Business Analysis Body of Knowledge® and the IIBA® certification exam. Mary is co-author with Ellen Gottesdiener of the recently released book Discover to Deliver: Agile Product Planning and Analysis.

If you have any comments or questions for this episode, please post them below.

Enjoy the show and don’t forget to spread the word about this awesome episode using the social sharing links.


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Article by

Yaaqub Mohamed (Yamo), is the founder of The BA Coach community and host for the #1 ranked business analysis podcast in iTunes. He believes in adding relentless value to the BA community and advancing the practice.  He host this blog, and podcast to help business analysts throughout the world, do analysis better, by providing educational, relevant, and inspiring content. He's the author of 'The Five Pillars of a Great Business Analyst', best selling 'The Ultimate CBAP-CCBA Study Guide' and the creator of the revolutionary 'Ultimate BABOK Kit'. 

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3 Responses to “TBAC 028 | Author Cast : Exploring ‘Discover to Deliver’”

  1. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to share with your listeners, Yamo.
    [As Mary commented during the podcast: you’re a wonderful analyst (listening and summarizing and gleaning the gold from our conversation ;-) ]

    we welcome your listener’s comments, and hope they’ll visit the book’s website, We will continually add and improve the site via ongoing incremental deliveries of more assets and goodies.

    For example, in future releases we’ll be adding: an extended resource list, downloads of images from the book, media for learning more about Discover to Deliver™ practices, an example Options board, and more!

    thanks again for the hosting us, Yamo!
    ~ ellen

  2. David Morris says:

    Mary shared some of these techniques with us when she was in New Zealand for last year’s BA Development Day conference, and it was clear then that they were part of a well-considered, well-articulated, and well-tested approach – one which I have subsequently talked about with other kiwis, so I shall be letting them know it’s in book form now. I’m certainly looking forward to getting a copy of this book in my hands too.

    Thanks to Ellen and Mary for sharing more of their thinking in this book … and another great interview Yamo!
    ~ David

  3. Katie Metcalfe says:

    Thanks Mary and Ellen for sharing the details about your new book.
    This book sounds like a valuable addition to any BA’s reading. I’ll be picking it up. Thanks for the discount coupon!

    Another great author cast Yamo.

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